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 The first modern polymer frame semi-automatic pistol

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PostSubject: The first modern polymer frame semi-automatic pistol   Sat May 08, 2010 7:01 am


http://www.genitron.com/P2Unique-Detail.asp?ID=14

Many people consider the Glock 17 pistol, developed by the Austrian manufacturer of its namesake in the early 1980's, as the first modern polymer frame semi-automatic pistol. They will be surprised to find that Heckler & Koch actually developed the first polymer frame pistol around fifteen years earlier.

In 1968 this German manufacturer patented the first polymer pistol design, subsequently named the VP 70. Its model designation of VP stands for Volkspistole, meaning 'Pistol for the People', and the number 70 stands for the first year of its production.

This pistol was designed by the great Heckler & Koch engineer Helmut Welde and company co-founder Ales Seidel. It featured a hammerless striker-fired action and double-action-only trigger common now to almost all modern-day polymer pistols, and a high capacity 18-round double-stack magazine.

The military version, designated VP 70M, came with a detachable butt-stock. The butt-stock actually had multiple purposes. When attached to the pistol, a mechanism in the butt-stock engaged the pistol which would allow it to fire in a three-burst automatic mode, selectable by a small switch on the fore-front of the butt-stock. When detached, the butt-stock could be used to store the pistol, and could even be worn as a hard-case holster.

As advanced as the design was, the VP 70 had its drawbacks. First, it had a fixed barrel with a 'blow-back' style operation. 'Blow-back' is still today a common operation for smaller caliber pistols, but it was found that 9 mm cartridge loads generated excessive recoil in blow-back pistols. Now almost all pistols 9 mm or larger employ a delayed recoil operation with a floating barrel, which significantly reduces recoil. Additionally, the VP 70 had a rather awkward straight-pull trigger with an unusually heavy and uncomfortable 18-pound pull. These two negative attributes made it difficult to maintain accuracy.

Heckler & Koch finally ceased production of the VP 70 in 1989 giving way to the likes of Glock, and other manufacturers of recoil operated polymer frame pistols.



====================================================================================

From Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK_VP70

The VP70 is a 9 mm, 18-round, double action only, semi-automatic/three-round burst capable polymer frame pistol manufactured by German arms firm Heckler & Koch GmbH. VP stands for Vollautomatische Pistole[1] ("Fully automatic pistol"), and the designation 70 was for the year of the first edition: 1970.

It was the first polymer-framed pistol and predates the Glock 17 by 12 years. The weapon weighed 820 g (28.9 oz) unloaded, lighter than most other metal framed pistols of the time. Although it was the first polymer pistol, the Remington Nylon 66 rifle was the first polymer-framed firearm in production.

One unique feature of this weapon involved the combination stock/holster for the martial version of the VP70. The stock incorporates a selector switch that, when mounted, allows selective fire. Cyclic rate of fire for the three-round burst is 2200 rounds per minute. When not mounted, the stock acts as a holster. The VP70 uses a spring loaded striker like a Glock, instead of a conventional firing pin. It is double action only so the trigger pull is relatively heavy. In lieu of a blade front sight, the VP70 uses a polished ramp with a central notch in the middle to provide the illusion of a dark front post.

The handgun comes in two varieties. The "Z" (Zivil, civilian) variant is a semiautomatic only version, generally with no provision to mount a stock; the "M" (Militär, military) variant is burst capable. The VP70 was produced from 1970 until 1989. Four hundred VP70-Z pistols were made chambered in 9x21mm IMI; these samples were made primarily for the civilian market of Italy, where the use of the 9x19mm Parabellum is a sole privilege of military and law enforcement agencies. Those VP70-Z pistols sold in Italy can mount the stock-holster but are not selective-fire capable.

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PostSubject: Re: The first modern polymer frame semi-automatic pistol   Sat May 08, 2010 7:08 am

This may have been the first true polymer pistol, even before Glock, but I think Glock did a far better job where looks are concerned.
Many say Glocks are Ugly.

Glocks aint got nutin on this gun.
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PostSubject: Re: The first modern polymer frame semi-automatic pistol   Sat May 08, 2010 10:12 am

The styling of this gun is far more attractive than a Glock , IMHO. It breaks down exactly like my Walther PPK/S .380acp. You gotta love the German firearms designers and builders they do it right. I'm not saying that just because I happen to from Germanic heritage but I'm just sayin' :-)
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PostSubject: Re: The first modern polymer frame semi-automatic pistol   Sat May 08, 2010 11:40 am

Never did like the looks of the PPK. And to me this gun is a bit fugly lol.
The Euro stylists did a much better job on the Walther P99.

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PostSubject: Re: The first modern polymer frame semi-automatic pistol   Sun May 09, 2010 1:02 pm

Freedom,
C'mon, you don't really think the PPK/S is an ugly gun, do ya'? It has a "coolness" factor from the whole "007" genre and the styling is terrific. What do I have to do to sway you over to my side?
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PostSubject: Re: The first modern polymer frame semi-automatic pistol   Sun May 09, 2010 3:20 pm

LOL sorry, I am and always have been a big fan of 007, Bond..........James Bond.

But not that little pistol. Partly for the design, and partly for the size. A Glock 19 is as small as I care to go. The PPK is smaller yet.

I'm sure the PPKs are fine guns, I am just not a huge fan of them.

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PostSubject: Re: The first modern polymer frame semi-automatic pistol   Sun May 09, 2010 4:15 pm

If it's the ammo you're concerned about the .380 is a short 9mm and i use that new Hornady Critical Defense now and that's pretty nasty stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: The first modern polymer frame semi-automatic pistol   Sun May 09, 2010 9:42 pm

Naw, has nothing to do with the caliber. Just don't like small guns like that and I don't like the design, physically how it looks.

I am more a fan on the size and looks of the Walther P99. Like the newer James Bond uses.

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PostSubject: Re: The first modern polymer frame semi-automatic pistol   Mon May 10, 2010 11:23 am

Yes, the P99 does have that futuristic look to it, kinda neat. Everyone's tastes in guns is different, I was just foolin' with ya'.
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PostSubject: Re: The first modern polymer frame semi-automatic pistol   Mon May 10, 2010 7:29 pm

Not a problem, I figured you were digging for info.
And that is good, the more info we put her the more people have to make informed decisions on future purchases.
Like your posts on the new barrel for your pistol. Good info and useful links.

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PostSubject: Re: The first modern polymer frame semi-automatic pistol   Tue May 11, 2010 10:41 am

Freedom,
I do try to share the information I've learned because when I was starting out last Fall, I had no one to ask questions of, and the sales guys at the gun shops are pretty much helpless just because they are not motivated. Their attitudes are horrible and they act as though you're interrupting their day at the office. The reason, I think, is that they don't have anything to motivate them to sell guns. Most are paid hourly but if they worked on commission I bet their attitude would change.
I was in a furniture store a few weeks ago and those guys are all over you because they work on commission.
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PostSubject: Re: The first modern polymer frame semi-automatic pistol   Tue May 11, 2010 3:05 pm

If they worked on commission they would probably try to stear you away form the gun you want to see and to a higher priced pistol.

I was in a shop like that one time. Never went back. I wanted to look at a gun in the 500.00 range and they wanted to show me something that was almost 800.00

And what you said about they act like you are interrupting their day. LOL I see that in just about every shop but one. And this one use to be like that, but now when you go in the owner is always smiling and happy to help with whatever you need.
The other nice thing about this shop is the owner does not and has never been one of those people that tries to get you to buy a higher priced gun. If you are looking for HiPoint he will sell one, If you are looking for a Kimber he will sell one. Good guy. Pitty I have to drive all the way across the City to get to his store.

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PostSubject: Re: The first modern polymer frame semi-automatic pistol   Tue May 11, 2010 3:41 pm

Centinul,
At least you have a shop to go to that sounds terrific. Here in the Detroit area, "Where they eat their young", as the saying goes, I haven't been able to find a shop like what you're talking about.
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PostSubject: Re: The first modern polymer frame semi-automatic pistol   Wed May 12, 2010 9:04 pm

Detroit? Man do I feel sorry for you. Stay safe, you and yours. From what I hear, Detroit is near to being a demilitarized zone
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PostSubject: Re: The first modern polymer frame semi-automatic pistol   Thu May 13, 2010 9:15 am

PB,
To illustrate your point here's a story from this mornings Detroit News:

Before I begin I have to admit that I have no clue about how to post an article directly from the paper.

Headline: "Deadly stray bullet brings heartache and questions."

"A 69 year old Detroit woman cooking a meal to welcome her granddaughter back to town was struck & killed by a stray bullet, fired by a robbery victim at his mugger in the northwest part of the city Wednesday afternoon.
According to Detroit police spokeswoman Sgt. Eren Stephens, an unarmed man held up a 65-year old man who was looking at a house on the 18300 block of Evergreen shortly before 2:pm.
The thief, a 19-year old from Detroit, then fled in the man's green and tan Chevy Suburban, crashing into a tree.
When the robbed manfired shots at the mugger as he was climbing out of the SUV, a bullet went off course and into the home.
The bizzare victim on victim crime claimed the life of Geraldine Jackson.
Skip down a few paragraphs for this: Police weren't sure Wednesday whether the victim turned shooter would face criminal charges. Was he someone who had an imminent threat to his own life and fired the shots? If it was a situation where he was firing at someone who was maybe further away and was not personally at risk at the time, that could be different."

That's the gist of the story but I would like to add that on the 5:pm news last evening they had video of the scene and of the man who fired the fatal shot. The 19 year old had mugged him then hi jacked his car but crashed it and then fled on foot. The distance between the shooter and the hi jacker had to be close to 100 yards, and he was shooting at the guys back.
This is a no brainer, lock him up because there was not a threat to him.
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PostSubject: Re: The first modern polymer frame semi-automatic pistol   Thu May 13, 2010 10:37 am

Sad story, and I agree, he shot at the wrong time. If he were going to shoot at all he should have done it when the purp was taking the truck, not when he was a quarter mile away, well maybe not a quarter mile but damn, 100 yards is a good shot to make with a rifle, how stupid was this dude for thinking he could hit something from that distance, and what happened to the rule, about knowing whats beyond your target.

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God Bless the USA and our Troops everywhere.
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PostSubject: Re: The first modern polymer frame semi-automatic pistol   Thu May 13, 2010 11:12 am

Freedom,
You got it correct, who would take a shot at 100 yards? Some one who's uneducated in self defense that's who. IMO he should be held accountable for the woman's death because he had no justifiable reason to fire his gun.
In Detroit it's like the old west almost. Children get killed many times in situations like this that are common down there.
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